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Repair guidance for hornists

Why this article?

As a conscientious maker of horns I´m very interested, that the buyer for a very long period will enjoy his investment. The life span of an Engelbert Schmid Horn can be almost unlimited, but also any other make can last very long at the right maintenance. Generally it’s a fact, that horns, and brass instruments at all, are rarely dying by being played, but are destroyed by repairmen who don´t know the correct craft. So many of them are “destroymen”. Why exactly by these “experts”? Because they never have produced a machine, never have had to fight for every single hundreds of a millimeter.

The principle of a valve:

In wet condition of the inside tightening areas the valve has to be airtight also at the air pressure in Fortissimo. For this the tolerance in diameter between the rotor and the casing has to be within 5 to 8 hundreds of a mm. We aim to constantly achieving the 5/100 mm which are the minimum for well running valves. New valves of good makers normally are so tight, that the instruments from the beginning provide a good ff. In the first 6 months the valves get even tighter because of the oxidation and lime deposit. This is one of the reasons why horns get even better after a certain blowing in time. The valve bearings need to have even less tolerance, the less the better. In diameter within 2/100 mm is ideal and possible. By this the valve is running only on the bearings, which always should have oil. If there is no oil in the bearings, condensation water and with it lime deposit may grow into the bearings. The valve inside is swimming in the condensation water respectively in thin valve oil. The bearings need medium thin oil, which does not evaporate too quickly. Most of the problems with sticking valves come from no oil being in the bearings, so allowing the access of lime deposit (the calcium in the lime deposit is a very bad lubricant), or from bearings with too much tolerance, that the normally calcium covered rotor inside can touch the also lime deposit covered casing.

Schnitt-Ventil-english-800b.jpg

How should you treat the valves, that they are running reliably and not get old? See the following good advices: Bearing oil in the bearings prevents from wearing and contributes a lot to reliably running valves. Oil once per month, in hot summer months every 2 weeks. Half a drop exactly into the corner between stopper and bearing at the actuation side. At Engelbert Schmid Horns you have easy access to the correct spot. With the needle of the oil bottle you easily hit the right corner. Meahwhile we have oil resistant silicons, which are silent and durable for years.

Antriebseite-H160.jpg   Schraubdeckelseite-H160.jpg

At the screw cup side the correct spot for oiling is at the air marks. At Engelbert Schmid Horns due to the geometric construction the oil is growing very well into the whole inner bearing area.

At this moment I would like to explain 2 methods of oiling, which both make sense:

A) Oiling only the bearings and not inside: This is the common German method, which in principle works well. But you have to develop a sense for the right dosage. If you oil the bearings too little, condensation water and with it calcium will grow into the bearing, what blockades the valve. If you oil too much, the not so thin bearing oil will grow into the inner tightening areas and will make the valve tough running, without blockade, but slow. The right dosage is a half or small drop once a month, in summer at hot and dry weather every 2 weeks. Advantage: At a little too much tolerance in the tightening areas the lime deposit with time will make the valve a little tighter again.

B) Oiling inside and outside: This is the common method in the United States. At Engelbert Schmid Horns you need not oil through the slides! You will hit exactly the right spot by oiling through the side hole in the upper bearing plate, without danger of washing in slide grease. Advantage: You may oil too much the bearings from outside, as you will dilute everything again by oiling inside. The spreading oil in the horn decelerates the red rot at yellow brass horns, the red points under the lacquer. Disadvantage: Due to the permanently present oil inside almost no lime deposit is building up, which would tighten up leaking valves a little.

Behavior towards your repairman:

Understandably, but unfortunately for many brass players that repairman is regarded as superb, with which the valves are running absolutely without noise and freely when the instrument is picked up. Often this results from enlarging the tolerance in an acid bath. This might go well just once or twice again, but at the next repair the loss of metal suddenly is too much and the instrument is repaired to death. Of course the valves must run without problems, but accept minimal grinding noise! It will disappear within a few hours playing. If you feel yourself skillful enough in craft, you may take out a valve yourself, clean it and insert it again. For this please read also the good advices for repairmen, which you find also in this forum! You need from the maker or repairman of your instrument the following 3 small items: A crank lever, a nail with filed down peak, ( ~ 2.3 mm) and a round piece of wood with a hole in the center. A light hammer and a screw driver you have yourself.

Reparaturteile-Br800.jpg

Take away the cup and the central screw at the actuation side, put the blunt nail into the screw hole and beat out the rotor carefully. Then you abrade the lime deposit in its own soup and wipe rotor and casing clean with a cloth. Oil the valve at inserting like described above! Its important that you knock the bearing plate back on the casing completely in order not to produce up and down play! At mistreated und so untight valves of the traditional brands there is no entirely satisfying repair. Enlarging the rotors by galvanization (rebuilding the valves) can provide an improvement for some time, but often does not provide the necessary tightness to the valve, and absolutely never gives back the original running abilities. To exchange the whole machine by a new one is expensive and often changes the instrument. At Engelbert Schmid Horns mistreated valves always are completely repairable, - for a reasonable price! At this machine system its possible without problem to exchange the rotors and the valve is rest into the new condition. In the rare case of too much loss of metal in the casings these are calibrated to 1/10th bigger and corresponding bigger rotors and bearing plates are inserted.

So, I should let the things slide with the repair methods? :-) No, - again and again it’s a pain for my soul to see, how long hornplayers labour away with inefficient, untight horns, and that they normally have to pay themselves for the not so inexpensive repair, because they cannot make anybody responsible for that.

 

Repair guidance for repairmen

Why this article?

As a conscientious maker of horns I´m very interested, that the buyer for a very long period will enjoy his investment. The life span of an Engelbert Schmid Horn can be almost unlimited, but also any other make can last very long at the right maintenance. Generally it’s a fact, that horns, and brass instruments at all, are rarely dying by being played, but are destroyed by repairmen who don´t know the correct craft. So many of them are no repairmen, but “destroymen”. Why exactly by these “experts”? Because they never have produced a machine, never have had to fight for every singe hundreds of a millimeter.

The principle of a valve:

In wet condition of the inside tightening areas the valve has to be airtight also at the air pressure in Fortissimo. For this the tolerance in diameter between the rotor and the casing has to be within 5 to 8 hundreds of a mm. We aim to constantly achieving the 5/100 mm which are the minimum for well running valves. New valves of good makers normally are so tight, that the instruments from the beginning provide a good ff. In the first 6 months the valves get even tighter because of the oxidation and lime deposit. This is one of the reasons why horns get even better after a certain blowing in time. The valve bearings need to have even less tolerance, the less the better. In diameter within 2/100 mm is ideal and possible. By this the valve is running only on the bearings, which always should have oil. If there is no oil in the bearings, condensation water and with it lime deposit may grow into the bearings. The valve inside is swimming in the condensation water respectively in thin valve oil. The bearings need medium thin oil, which does not evaporate too quickly. Most of the problems with sticking valves come from no oil being in the bearings, so allowing the access of lime deposit (the calcium in the lime deposit is a very bad lubricant), or from bearings with too much tolerance, that the normally calcium covered rotor inside can touch the also lime deposit covered casing.

Schnitt-Ventil-english-800b.jpg

How should you treat the valves, that they are running reliably and not get old?

See the following good advices:

The most important repair at every overhaul is reseating the bearings, in order to have no side play at all any more, and reseating the upper bearing plate, for eliminating eventual up and down play. For this you do need a reseating tool (like f. i. from Böhm in Neustadt, www.boehmtools.de) with the according clamps. A clamp produces a triangle. You have to turn the bearing shrinking tool by 60° in order to achieve a hexagon and in the practical reality a circular shrinking. Then go up half the bearing and repeat the procedure. This means 4 short steps per bearing! Only then you have reseated well at the whole length! Develop a sense for the right dosage! If you once have reseated too much, you have to lap the axis in the bearing carefully with a grinding powder of size 1200 (which means that 1200 grains fit on 1 square mm!). After that you have to remove the grinding powder absolutely. Never you should lap the inside of the valve, and also never (one million times never) put the rotor into any bath for removing the lime deposit, or even worse polish the rotor! There is no bath on the world which takes away the lime deposit and does not remove metal! Even if you only take away the oxidation it’s a loss of metal! Very quickly you reach the barely acceptable 8/100 tolerance, and next time already the not any more acceptable 10/100 mm! Be aware: If you only take away 1/100 of the material, this amounts on 4/100 tolerance in diameter already (1/100 on each side of the rotor and 1/100 on each side of the casing)! You have reached the 10/100 mm tolerance and have destroyed the instrument!

And this as a “specialist”! You should be made responsible for an replacement instrument and you should be banned from your profession! Please don´t be shocked, but think about it! At the end you will be grateful to me for this brusque hint!

Turn the calcium covered rotor in its own soup with a crank lever at the upper bearing plate taken away. This way you chafe the excessive lime deposit and wipe it away with a cloth! The remaining lime deposite is positive! It makes the rotor rounder (no turned part on the world is absolutely perfect!), the film of liquid in which the rotor is swimming is more even and the valve is running better! Excessive lime deposit you remove with a scraper tool.

At very strong lime deposit by the musician one day you have to decalcify the instrument without the rotors and the bearing plates. Do this as rarely as possible! Eventually only every 5 years, and then only for a minimum of time. We in our workshop watch exactly, when the calcium is away and neutralize the instrument then immediately. About 1 minute in a 15% sulfuric acid bath is enough. Many repairmen, without thinking (“much helps much”) put the instrument in such a bath for 1 hour and so have 60 times the abrasion of metal at the casings! At responsible use of decalcification and the correct treatment of the rotors a machine can stay functional for 100 years indeed, also at professional use of the instrument. The staggering praxis of the repairmen is a life time of 5 to 10 years.

For reseating the upper bearing plate it makes sense to get a bench motor with the corresponding clamps. With this you are quicker than on the drilling lathe. The sensitive fixing of the bearing plate into the clamp, centering the level and taking away the few 100th of mm by hand provides better results than on the drilling lathe. Her you can see both sides of Engelbert Schmid valves from outside:

Antriebseite-H160.jpg    Schraubdeckelseite-H160.jpg

At Engelbert Schmid Horns there is enough distance at the stopper side between the stopper and the bearing, so you can reach the correct corner for oiling easily without oiling the silicones. At the screw cup side the correct spot for oiling is at the air marks. At Engelbert Schmid Horns due to the geometric construction of the air marks the oil is growing very well into the whole inner bearing area. Eventual oiling inside with thin valve oil is done through the side hole without the danger to wash slide grease from the slides into the valve.

At mistreated und so untight valves of the traditional brands there is no entirely satisfying repair. Enlarging the rotors by galvanization (rebuilding the valves) can provide an improvement for some time, but often does not provide the necessary tightness to the valve absolutely never gives back the original running abilities. To exchange the whole machine by a new one is expensive and often changes the instrument. At Engelbert Schmid Horns mistreated valves always are completely repairable, - for a reasonable price! At this machine system its possible without problem to exchange the rotors and the valve is rest into the new condition. In the rare case of too much loss of metal in the casings these are calibrated to 1/10th bigger and corresponding bigger rotors and bearing plates are inserted.

So, I should let the things slide with the repair methods? :-) No, - again and again it’s a pain for my soul to see, how long hornplayers labour away with inefficient, untight horns, and that they normally have to pay themselves for the not so inexpensive repair, because they cannot make anybody responsible for that.

Workshop

Our workshop

Werkstatt Engelbert Schmid

Engelbert Schmid was happy to find the final and ideal location for his workshop in his hometown of Mindelzell. A healthy rural area where the workers want to be worth the money they receive.

 

 

 

Werkstatt Engelbert Schmid

Konzertsaal Mindelsaal von Engelbert Schmid

with concert hall

The new workshop is designed with the next generation in mind. The production is ideally arranged on one level with a concert hall under the roof, acoustically predestinated for horn music.
Here you can test the instruments with concert hall acoustics.

 

 

 

 

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Repair guidance

Repair guidance for craftsmen and hornists to be found in the following articles.

Production

The Horn Maker

Everything within the scope of Instrument making, from the bell to the valves, is produced in Engelbert Schmid's well equipped workshop.

Many of his new production methods are his own development. Only the finest grain metals are used for his horns.

ES-am-arbeitstisch

From the very beginning Engelbert Schmid made use of the latest scientific developments. He now has his own Computer diagnostic System. Because he makes all parts of the horn himself he can immediately incorporate ehe latest findings in his horns.

stand-der-technik

 

„State of the Art" as found on other horns: a lot of excess weight, sharp corners, and the characteristic problems of rotary valve slurs.
When the valves leak, it is usually not worth having them repaired.

 

 

E.S. Neuerungen der Technik

Innovations by Engelbert Schmid:

no excess weight, quicker action, smoother curves, 80° less change of direction per valve, direct connections between the valve casings without a joint in the middle, acoustically exact valve ports, and better valve slurs.

Because of the use of the right alloys and the easy replacement of the valve cylinders, the valves have a practically unlimited life-span.

The valves will outlive the rest of the horn!

neusilberkranz

 

 

Appreciate the aesthetics of the nickel-silver ring, and of the whole horn.

With its 60g, this nickel-silver ring has just 1/3rd of the normal weight and doesn't deaden the sound. It is an interesting Option for someone looking for a little more weight and resistance.  

  

handgraviert

 

 

He does all the engraving himself, by hand, so you can say each horn bears his own personal signature. Study the artistic three dimensional bends on an Engelbert Schmid horn, all done by hand.

 

 

 


kringel

Even with most complicated models we maintain the perspective!

 

 

 

 

 Horns for world class musicians

In the production of Engelbert Schmid horns you will only find craftsmen with the greatest skill and sensivity , the cream of German craftmanship. 

Urzustand ENGELBERT SCHMID HORN

 

 

Each one strives to improve his part in the production with new ideas and devices.

 

 

Original state of Engelbert Schmid Horn

  

   

klappen

 

Of course you can order those flipper and finger hook models, which are functional and popular but don´t look like belonging to aesthetical horn making. On the other hand our flipper model is adjustable, comfortable and folds to the inside so that nothing extends outside the horn, and it´s harmonious with the aesthetics of the horn. Our comfortable fingerhook fits 95% of the hands and is so constructed that it gives way before the bell would be damaged. If you notify us of an unusual hand size when odering, the finger hook will always fit.

 werkzeugleiste

feuer-blas

 

Ventile

When Craftsmanship Becomes an Art

The craftmanship with which Engelbert Schmid horns are made can be described as an art. Observe the smooth curves, the reduction of unnecessary weight, the aesthetics of the tasteful ornamentations and the logic of the layout! Appreciate the harmony of the nickel-silver bell wreath.

With a weight of 60 g this wreath has only a third of the normal mass, and does not deaden the sound. It is an interesting option for someone looking for a little more weight and resistance.